D.H. Well today I’m interviewing Steve Grudgings for the ‘Parnalls’ of Yate Exhibition 2008 it’s the 24^th June 2008 we are at the Yate Heritage Centre um, Steve could you say just a little bit about yourself, date of birth um, a little bit maybe about your family and where you were brought just so that we know who we are dealing with.

S.G. Oh of course, um, Steve Grudgings born 11/2/54 in Leicester, my father Peter, mother Jean,  both turned out to be school teachers, I’ve got two younger brothers, Matt and Jack and a younger sister Ruth. I lived in Leicester until 1960 in Warwickshire, Southern Warwickshire until 1967 and moved to Tytheington with my folks in 1967. I went to Thornbury Grammar School; left in 1970 went to Filton Tech, 1973 I started working.

D.H. Ok, oh, why did you go to ‘Parnalls’?

S.G. I went to ‘Parnalls’ because I started work before as a management Trainee at ‘Sainsbury’ which was a very, very good job, I hated it and boring, I gave it up after six or seven months and went off and hitch hiked around Europe planning to take quite along time only finished up taking a month, came back broke and not sure what I wanted to do to my mum and dad’s, realised I had to find a job and there was some..I forget how I found out. There was a forklift drivers job going up what was then ‘Jackson’s’ at Yate that was in August September 1974 um, I started, I started as a forklift driver and the works were on strike at the time and I’m not sure why they wanted forklift drivers but they did it wasn’t particularly onerous. I did that for a month or so and then realised that I probably didn’t want to be a forklift driver for the rest of my life so I decided to go and do a HND in Business Studies at Bristol Polytechnic. When I announced this to the man in charge of all the things well why don’t you come have a job in the office and you can do day release. Well, I thought that’s a good idea, very nice chap, a chap called Alan Haigs chap whose in charge of the progress and production very supportive nice friendly.

So that’s what I did. So I didn’t particularly aimed to work at ‘Jackson’s’ it was just one of those things I fell into and so I started as a clerk, a clerk in the production control office and probably because I was at the right place at the right time given a series of promotions and I left four years later as progress manager, did allsorts of things because at that time ‘Jackson’s’ employed about two thousand people I can’t remember exactly and running a day and a night shift it was making cookers, tumbler dryers, er, and kettles or kettle bodies there and for me as a sort of clerk basic in the production and control I found it fascinating, I never worked in.. didn’t understand what a press shop, a plating shop did, a machine shop, a tool room, a production line and all those sorts of things so although my job leads me into all those sorts of areas I found that, I found that quite fascinating and I was er average age in the organisation seemed to be about 50 at that time. I was very much the, very much the young lad there weren’t that many young folks as I say the average age was about 50 or 55 which to me at that age which was about  20-something which seem to be absolutely ancient but they were a nice bunch of people um, very heavily unionised, if you went into the press shop at the wrong time and looked at them they would be all out on strike, if you looked at the press workers job you’d understand why they wanted or they would want to strike. Machine shop was full of tools dating from the Second World War or well past their prime as were quite a lot of the people there they were still wearing, wearing brown coats, you had time and motion people you don’t see nowadays who wore white coats and clip boards and a, the office I worked in was the I didn’t realise until after I left was the aircraft assembly room which was the original Parnall’s era, large open plan, open plan with a high mezzanine around it, um, quite a, my first experience of sort of a large organisation the MD at the time was a man called Arthur Dewes who used to shout over the, shout over the balcony at you if a, if a the urge took him and all sorts of personalities in the organisation, Dennis Matthews was the production manager, Dennis was a local man full of energy, difficult to, would sit still for long, um, we had, at an early stage I was asked to work with the board um, I forget what it was for.. this was part of Alan Haig’s thing that he did with all of his, all of his young chaps, he used to give us as much exposure as to the way the organisation worked as much as possible so one of the board meetings that stand out in my mind was when the quality manager threatened to take the production manager outside and a sort their argument by taking their jackets off, but it didn’t come to that but a, that gave me an early insight into what work was like. It wasn’t political at all but it was just very some of it was quite abrasive a lot of the folks had been there all their lives have no aspiration to do anything else which was fine um, the… everybody of course everyone smoked, drank and things were clock in and clock out. I started in the..I started in the office but for a while I was asked to, asked to take on the progress chasers, that was quite interesting I’ve never had people working for me, I was 20 or 21 and didn’t know how to deal with them, to deal with people I probably got the job because I had a lot of energy and a, and not much else so I used to have to go all over the factory and quite fascinated to find out how a foundry worked and how a plating shop worked and a, you had to be careful there were some people in the tool shop because that was a very closed, very closed shop um, yeh lots of memories…

D.H. Can I just ask, your parents were teachers how did they feel about you going into working basically in a factory when they’d had a more academic background?

S.G. I think my mum and dad were both very keen that I went to business school and all that sort of stuff and being a difficult child that I was and whatever my parents wanted I decided I wouldn’t do and I think they were glad I’d got a job and I was doing sort of, on the, on the straight and narrow they didn’t have to worry about me that much I’d expect that’s where they were…

D.H. Ahh, what about friends at School? What sort of jobs did they do?

S.G. All sorts of things really, they, by this time quite a few, quite a few had gone to university most of my, most of my contemporises didn’t hadn’t, I don’t think any of them worked at ‘Jackson’s’I still, I still saw lot of them around the pubs and the clubs in Thornbury, Thornbury and Bristol, I didn’t keep contact with a huge.. I kept in contact with a few a School friends um, I had a odd day release at a Bristol pol, Bristol Polytechnic um, I think we were the second year, but the first year at the new Coldharbour site had a fantastic crowd of, a fantastic crowd of blokes all the same age or slightly older than me or were just, just starting work, so we used to have a great social life with them.

D.H. So you um, so basically you started at’Jackson’s’ what did people think about ‘Jackson’s’ were they did it have some kind social cache did it have any prejudges against it?

S.G. Oh, I don’t know, I wasn’t aware of any, that was probably because I wasn’t well tuned into that kind of stuff, it was a very large local employer at that time ‘Jackson’s’ and ‘Newman’s’ employed most of Yate and surrounding areas at sort of going home time it was er the streets, the streets were jammed there was lots of people, some people drove lots of people, lots of people, lots of people walked, it was a large factory it is difficult these days to get the feel of it, it’s a bit like a, a couple of thousand people admittedly some of them on night shift it just took up, between them and ‘Newman’s’ they must have taken up a good chunk of the population of Yate. Most of the folks were local most of them knew each other most of them knew each others families there was allsorts of, allsorts of people there was an Italian lady married to a Italian I remember Sheila Mogalizzi she was, she took, she took care of me, her husband was, her husband was Italian they met I think they met during the war their son Renata worked there he was sort of a contemporary of mine, I used to see him out in the pubs in the evening, so, yes allsorts, they tended to group, the a, the um, motor shop was full of ladies, a chap call Steve Smith used to manage the ladies in the motor shop he used to tell me the various techniques he had to employ to a, to a manage women it was predominately a female, a female middle aged environment. The production lines were quite a law unto themselves you could do whatever you wanted with the production lines except stop them working, you stop them working them didn’t make any, make any money, so one of my jobs was to keep the production lines, production lines working so if it got stopped you didn’t exactly get heckled I certainly got a hard time.

D.H. You mentioned that you could walk around, you went around various parts of the factory what parts of the factory had the greatest impact on you?

S.G. It was a complete, it was a complete muddle of a place the press shop was fascinating because they’d got these huge power presses going up and down the machine shop I never worked in any sorts of these environments before the.. most of these places were highly visible and the paint shop, plating shop weren’t so, weren’t so obvious the um, I’m trying to answer your question here..I suppose the production line was the was probably the most, the most impressive because of the huge hanger I think its still there, I think its still where they do the production allsorts of things going round on conveyers on lifts and things its just extremely busy. I remember the first time I saw ‘Bosch’ tumbler dryers I was sort of amazed with these high quality German products would be made in our factory they put a ‘Bosch’ face on it it would be a ‘Jackson’s’ tumbler dryer.

D.H. Were certain areas particularly noisy or unpleasant to work in?

S.G.  I don’t remember you got different… the press shop was obviously noisy and very Health and Safety conscious one of the ones I remember it was ones press when ones have been pressed there is a lot of grease and oil on them to keep the metal lubricated and the metal was lowered but they are lowered into, they are lowered into a bath of trico-ethelthene a degreasing agent you used to had to be very careful with some of the operators. It is an intoxicant so some of the operators hang around and sort of inhale it and you used to have move the operators from time to time. I remember the cookers shop it was a lovely, the progress we had a chap called Fred Barnett, I don’t know where he came from but he was sort of Sri Lankan a bloke called the innocence mall and the production line the cooker production line was obviously women and Fred and Iny had most of these women inthroghall or the other way round but the cooker shop was an older building lower and sort of dusty I don’t think that cookers were being made. A foundry right at the top of the main road was a dark and dusty building and few people in it there wasn’t much foundry work going on a couple of Nissan huts around the site so yeah, it was a big site at the time not been..never been back I understand a lot has been built over a big long site a big field in front of it I didn’t understand at the time was the airfield.

D.H. So, would you say that within these different areas departments that was any kind of pecking order or people felt that they were better than certain people because they worked in different areas?

S.G. Ooh, I probably wasn’t very sensitised to that, but I, the press shop were the ones if someone wanted to stop the factory, the press shop was the ones who were able to do it most quickly so they were, they had, they were sort of had like storm troops, so the press shop was the storm troops, yes. The tool room was the was the sort of the error of dark skill to be a tool maker whether you did or whether you didn’t you got the impression that was a real skill and they might tell you about it if you nice and approached them in the right way they were a nice bunch I didn’t have any problems with them, I was sort of..but there I wasn’t particular threatening I wasn’t bright enough to pick up anything they told me anyway um, so I don’t think there was any pecking order and bearing in mind some of the units were quite separate the plating shop I don’t think the guys in the plating shop ever moved out of it and so with the machine shop and with the guillotine shop these people went in there and worked to say it was unusual I covered all the the areas and..yeah. That all I can remember.

D.H. Was there any kind of blue collar, white collar divide off the office and factory floor?

S.G. Yes you had the um, I remember I went sort of white collar I had a car parked inside the gate compound, rather than, rather than outside it, um, err I remember I didn’t clock in after a certain stage, I always remember my Alan Haigs telling me  I had to start when I was promoted I had to start at 7.30am the same time as the shop and at that stage I was out quite a lot and drinking quite a lot and had a great social life and struggled to make it in for 7.30am well Alan was really great and said ‘I don’t care Steve what you do, you are suppose to be in before everybody else as long as you are in before the MD I don’t mind what time you get in, so make sure you’re in before the MD, and I thought that was very good pragmatic approach so I didn’t get in for 7.30 but I wasn’t..I wasn’t…I was pretty pretty good on timing. Um, no it was fairly, it was fairly casual, one of the things was encouraged to do I had a sort of predecessor Alan had taken on a graduate a chap called Rodney Siddell who was obviously on the up and up and Rodney took me to one side after about a year one and a bit and said ‘Steve if you want to get on here you’re going to get.. you’re going to have to get that cravat and wear a and wear a sort of a.. and wear a jacket and tie and so with great, great reluctance I started doing this and I think this was because this was one of the things um, that marked you out silly one of those things.

D.H. So what were workers on the factory floor wearing?

S.G. I can’t remember I think a lot of the guys in the.. I think a lot of the charge hand guys wore brown coats I suspect it was more of protective than a badge of office. Quite a few people wearing um, bib and tucker overalls and and overalls quite a lot of the maintence guys were in overalls the people on the production line don’t remember having any notable clothing I think it was a more normal casual clothing and I think it was the same with the press shop of course you had to go careful in the press shop anything that caught, as with the machine shop the brown coats, I don’t know they had a fairly practical clothing um, I remember a lot of the toolroom guys wearing brown coats, yes I think the progress, the progress guys wore white coats but I can’t remember why.

D.H. So, in the office where I guess you’d be a certain proportion of the time, what were the offices like what that side kind of furniture equipment did you use?

S.G. Well it wasn’t particular modern even at the time it was large, large wooden stuff I can’t even remember it was a well-worn parquet flooring. I don’t think it had that sliding I don’t remember much about that a lot of it was on desk storage there wasn’t the amount of paperwork you get these days. There weren’t any computers and no printers and they used to get computer printout delivered on Monday morning in a grey mini van that came from a computer centre in Birmingham and a lot of the stuff went off I think at the end of the previous week to be processed over the weekend and that’s all you got out and this was big green computer printout sheets the rest of it was either typed or hand written. All of the production control staff was kept on, was kept on orange cards carefully which generated works orders from that I can’t remember what the chairs were like quite old steel, and steel and wood wood furniture it was a big light area I don’t remember much about lighting, everybody was smoking a big fog of, a big fog of smoke in the office at all the management offices that were arranged around the corridor on the sort of the on the periphery of the building I can remember we had obviously had the engineering people we had the production management, production control, the accounts people were upstairs on a sort of mezzanine, you had the quality manager, you had the sort of reception desk then you went further round you had the trade guy ‘Ian’ something or other then you had a somebody else oh yes you had the person tell people further round and I can’t remember after that um, yeh, it was dull grey probably been there, probably been there since the Second World War pretty robust, pretty robust sort of stuff sometimes I joined..part of the time I was there was during the three day week and in the three day week when would that be 197?  Whenever it was…

D.H. Yeah about 1973-4

S.G. I was working, working the three day week it was a surprise to me that we were able to manage to make so many tumble dryers and cookers less about 5% in a three day week as we did in a five day week, because we were very, very, very focused. Um, as a .. because I was on the staff I was still in and paid for five days that was quite a strong, strong memory for me oh yeh you had the computer people upstairs, I forgotten the M.Ds office was upstairs on the mezzanine, his secretary and you had the IT computer people they were over in the opposite over in the opposite side. A lot of the office was given over to a drawing office a big drawing office these guys were drawing up tools, tools, tools and jigs um, had a big progress section in the office we had the big buying section in the office we had the orders the commercial side aswell the motion study the time and motion people and then most of it was was drawing office, yeh, its all coming back to me.

D.H. So, we’ve mentioned management a few times how, how do you, how..what was management worker relations like at that time?

S.G. I think they were generally pretty good, I mean there was an acceptance it was highly unionised and people would still talk to each other even though they would formerly disagree because of their positions as in, as in management and union pretty friendly sort of place, I don’t remember, sometimes people were pretty direct with each other, but people were pretty friendly, people knew other people a lot of sort of ..father/son, mother /son, father/daughter that sort of stuff lots of family relationships, lots of family relationships there, yeah, generally, generally there pretty friendly, I don’t remember having any difficulty from that point of view, I wouldn’t have noticed any way, I wasn’t deaf at the time, I don’t remember…

D.H. So, I think you’ve probably answered this already but I wondered if ‘Jackson’s had a good reputation therefore, for worker /management relations perhaps more so than other places in…

S.G. I don’t know, I really don’t know…

D.H. Maybe in retrospect?

S.G. Quite a good charismatic personnel, W.O Morgan nickname was Womble, very popular.. nice chap, um and the the two main production guys Dennis Mathews and Terry Brindle, Terry was a difficult so and so, Dennis was a sort of very insistent sort of chap, but these were fairly..you kinow, their job was to get this stuff out, out of the factory I think most people realised that there was this sense that the work wasn’t particularly interesting you were there to get tumbler dryers, cookers and what ever it was, what ever it was out of the door.um, yeh, the unionisation the strikes and things was just you know got there everywhere I think at the time.

D.H. I mean, elements of worker management is one thing, Health and Safety is one thing, was Health and Safety quite a, strict there?

S.G. It wasn’t as obvious as it was these days, probably it was imbedded in most of the business, I the machine shops extremely dangerous places, the press shop even more so. Quite a lot of the press operators you know were minus a finger or so and you can understand it there was no sort of hiding place in that sort of environment. I don’t remember seeing any protective clothing but pretty conscientious they were pretty professional um, aswell I, there wasn’t these obvious Health and Safety regime. I don’t think it wasn’t any less safe, I think Health and Safety was embedded in the process

D.H. How did wages develop while you were there?

S.G. I really can’t remember if I had enough money because I spent too much on beer! I was relatively well paid, I forget..I think I started on £1,000 a year if I remember rightly, I can’t remember what I finished up on three or four something like that.

D.H. Did people ever comment on their wages or?

S.G. I don’t remember it, I don’t remember at all, it was, you know, you were paid, it wasn’t, you weren’t as aspirational if you like, I don’t remember particularly so I don’t remember the people around me bearing in mind I was in the office there was a sort of expectation that you would be there for a while um, you know. One of the reasons why I left was I could just see myself being there the rest of my life and that scared the hell out of me, because quite a lot of the people were sort of, went into it as their first job and retired out of it and I saw some of these poor souls hanging around the factory gates after they had retired and I thought I don’t want be there um, it was a large enough organisation for a couple of guys to have died at work when I was there, didn’t see them exactly keel over in front of me but with that many people with that sort of age profile you know, the law of  averages there is going to be a couple of deaths and that was a bit of a surprise to me. I don’t really remember the senior managers as the board directors the board guys had cars there were four or five company cars, personnel guy had one, the production guy had one, the M.D., financial director and one other. So they were weird and wonderful things at the time, but no other company car. I think we were all paid, I was certainly paid on a weekly basis um, I don’t think I was paid overtime for after a while yeh, I don’t remember it being there you know its not…

D.H. One or two other things to consider. Can I ask about some of the people who worked there and some of the issues I suppose, um, you mentioned women a few times how do you think men and women got on together in what some people would assume as a factory with a kind of male dominated group of a…a bit different perhaps do you think?

S.G. I think there was some…I don’t think it was an egalitarian, it wasn’t the same as egalitarian but you got the production line was a mix of men and women pretty evenly split and the tool room and the press shop were predominately male. The cooper line if I remember it and the motor shop were predominately female um, so you had the office was, the office was, mixed, um, you had, you know with two thousand people and people have often with both sexes all sorts of things have been going on all ages and most of which I wasn’t amused I wasn’t aware of you know, you’d see something you were aware of some of these things from time to time its inevitable with that many people I wouldn’t have said it was a male dominated world and having said that having there were no female managers it just didn’t seem unusual at the time it seemed perfectly um, perfectly normal. I trying to think just most of the… probably the most senior women of the M.D’s secretary and dum, a few other, a few others like that there weren’t very many. I don’t… I think we had one woman progress chasing, I understand there were..so yes I suppose, the women were in manual worker and junior clerical roles.

D.H. So were there obvious differentials between women and men’s pay?

S.G. No, idea, no idea. Never saw, never saw the pay slips.

D.H. Right, ok

S.G. I don’t remember particularly interested

D.H. Presumably with union activity was that, was that mainly a male preserve of all?

S.G.. Um, the production line, production line were, the press shop were the most militant so yes, but the, but the production line certainly the tumble dryer production line wasn’t that was, you know, that was women just as militant as the men from what I remember.

D.H. So, you mentioned earlier that a lot of people were local um, was it all one white Anglo-Saxon British or were there…

S.G. There were a few, there were mostly, mostly, mostly quite a few, I remember quite a few black people but not that many they weren’t the exception but there weren’t that many you know three or four percent if that.

D.H. Were there any issues?

S.G. No, not that I can remember everybody… a few blackguards got under, got on superbly well, but what I do remember there were quite a lot of people from the Northeast, I can’t remember why it’s just the individuals that that stood out.

D.H. So, presumably they could have been invited down because of a higher unemployment?

S.G. Presumably I that sort of stage I wasn’t interested there was too much going on in my own life to be interested in other people.

D.H. So, what about the social life Jackson’s?

S.G.. Pretty active, pretty active social life I remember almost every Friday the factory certainly the office emptied most people were up the pub it was quite normal to be up the pub quite a lot of the lunchtimes, quite a lot of the lunchtimes as well I, because I use to work with production control we dealt with quite a lot of the sub-contractors and the sub-contractors were pretty liberal with their alcohol supplies so they used to take us out, used to take us out quite regularly nothing flash but they used to go for a few beers and a sort of a ploughman’s normally on them. There was a lot of alcohol coming in from those directions at Christmas in the office we always made sure we shared a round. There was, I’m sure, a sports and social club in was a bit too, I was a bit more interested in clubbing it and pubbing it in Bristol than go to those sorts of things it seemed to me a thing for people in their sort of forties, couples and that sort of thing and not my cup of tea at all it was pretty active. I can remember a few skittles nights and those sorts of things um, I’m sure there were some works bashes, I don’t remember going to any of them, dinner dances those sorts of things, but I don’t remember any of them you know it’s pretty social and lots of people… yeah there was a sports and social club in the canteen at the top much of which is still there.

D.H. Were there particular places that people went to for drinking or socialising? You mentioned about going out for drinks with the office or….?

S.G. Oh, now you’re asking, I can’t remember where we went other than to The Railway on Station Road which obviously the nearest one cos you could just walk up there and walk back. I do remember my boss Alan Haynes whose wife was called Maureen, and Alan would be in the Pubs in Chipping Sodbury until the early hours in the morning in the week. I think actually he had a heart problem and had to stop that. Alan was a big lad he’d been there until the early hours of the morning and a sense of sort of respect because we couldn’t you know, we were out there we didn’t see him out of there and that was, that was quite common to the pubs in the High Street were flexible in terms of opening hours I used to see his son, his son occasionally when we went out drinking um, so that was, so that was quite common, now you come to mention it which ones we went to were taken up to by the sub-contractors.

D.H. Did the staff at Jackson’s use Station Road businesses much? You know, cafés or shops or?

S.G. I don’t know, bearing in mind I was only living four or five miles away, but I sort of you know, I went. I remember walking sometimes just walking to Yate at lunchtime, the Tesco’s had just opened that was quite unusual it was really cheap and cheerful at that stage so…but, yeh, I sure they did but I don’t remember there were a fair run of businesses up and down there so it was pretty busy but I don’t remember them.

D.H. Right…

S.G. I do remember what it was like.. trying to get some of the characters of the a chap called Joe Dunn whose in charge of the stores if you wanted anything out of the ordinary done in a hurry you had to charm Joe so everybody was really nice to Joe or a pain in the neck. His job was to…his role in the stores was not to supply materials to people but to keep the thing in there as long as they could, it was the same with a couple of other people so if you wanted some stuff done, you had to go to them nice and charming to them, the trouble is if they were a progress person you knew that they always wanted something or always want something from them and the other things I had to do was laying people off and that was unpleasant but actually I was.. somebody said to me “You are never going to make it nice for them so just be short and sharp and clean’ and it was easier than I thought, most unpleasant.

D.H. How did most people get to work really, do you remember? Presumably people descending on the factory.

S.G. I had a car at one stage, I got a lift in with one of the guys in the office which was lucky, he came through Tytherington and picked me up. John Greenfield um then I lived out at Avening Green and so I got my first decent car and swapped a 708 cooker a rebuilt cooker, one of those things that had failed and come back in to be rebuilt, I swapped seven or eight cookers for an old Morris Minor so we were both  pleased with the deal. This thing was, this thing was wasn’t in the best of spirits and I didn’t look after it particularly well, I used to traipse down from Avening Green into Jacksons every morning but obviously quite a few on bikes. There used to be a fair  flurry of cars coming out at going home time. I remember at one stage bashing my Morris Minor into the back of Terry’s Vauxhall Victor, Terry worked in the Finance area a charming chap which really balled me out he was very diplomatic, yeah,

D.H. Was there any rivalry in Newmans at all? Or how did people regard Newmans?

S.G. Difficult for me to say because I was from outside of Yate, they were just another large local employer of similar sort of size and stature I don’t know whether perceived to better or differently I sure some of the locals used to mix it quite a lot I didn’t cos I didn’t you know outside of work I didn’t stay in and around Yate very much.

D.H. Um, I don’t think there is anything else, oh I was going to ask were there any perks with the job I mean you’ve…?

S.G. Yeah, cheap cookers, cheap tumble dryers the family were supplied with a tumble dryer, in fact my granny had hers until she died. I think my mum dad may still have one, a old TD400, you had TD400 & TD275s it was I got to think now, I always never knew what it stood for , that was the weight 4kilos 2.75kilos, the stupid thing is still imprinted on your brain I can still remember part nos 613026 was the rear bearing mount how sad is that? It’s as bad as that after all that, all that time and um, these were always the ones you had problems with, I remember the front panel part numbers was you know, you just learn these. That not answering the question that you’d…

D.H. That was quite a perk I mean was was there a limit to how much you could have presumably?

S.G. I don’t know, I never tested it.

D.H. You couldn’t say ‘I’ll have a hundred’ and sell them on to somebody…

S.G. No, I think, I don’t remember there being a limit but I think somebody would obviously realise you were doing it for resale it was kind of family and friends and also because everybody had kettles as well to make kettles I can’t remember if we used to make kettles or kettle bodies there was a kettle shop at one stage um, John … used to run it,  we certainly used to get these were Russell Hobbs kettles, I wonder if we used to make the bodies and ship them up there, but I can’t remember, I think that’s what we did. We had cheap kettles and all the family had kettles, all the family had kettles and all the family had tumbler dryers um, the cookers were as I say were on the phase out the cooker 708 was sort of a big thing it had a sort of a top top oven and a sort of an upmarket one they weren’t particularly expensive I can’t remember what I paid that was about it and don’t think you got any other..,any other.. oh there was, you could buy things from the ‘tube investments’ they did greenhouses there things like that there was a sort of a staff purchase thing for all the staff for ‘tube investment products’ you could get cheap rolled steel joints if you asked I think they were in the brochure so those sorts of things.

D.H. Just thinking about the managers was there much fraternisation with the directors at all? Was there a feel of a family firm, people coming to talk to you?. ‘Well done Grudgings you’re all doing very well’ or was it a bit more subtle?

S.G. That’s an interesting question David, but I don’t know, the managing director when I was there Arthur Dewes was, you know, a classic 50s sort. He was a tall bombastic Yorkshire man and he would..you know.. I don’t remember having much to do with him, his successor a chap called John Eamer was a more genteel chap, um, and because I probably was more senior at the time I knew.. John very very approachable and still he was MD but still approachable, the personnel manager I remember was very, very approachable um, so yah, these people were on first name terms with you, yah, sometimes you would call them Mr. sometimes you’d called them by their christen names they were quite approachable it was quite clear that they were the boss and I didn’t have much cause to sort of to challenge to challenge  that, so I  remember them being fairly, fairly, fairly genial and fairly friendly um, yah, bear in mind I was sort of  bright I was certainly one of the young things around the office so there was a general, was a general thing to encourage you know because of the age of the work force they were quite happy to see sort of young bright things in things like that

D.H. Um, so you obviously made it clear there was it was cordial within the factory, was there a good sense of camaraderie in the office?

S.G. Oh yeh, yeh, there was a…yes very much so. Camaraderie, rivalry, silliness as well there was all sorts of.. we used to work next to the buying section, we used to wind those guys up, there was a chap at one stage called Dennis Arley ‘dancing Dennis’ he used to like ballroom dancing and somebody came in and got on top of him and he wasn’t happy about I can’t remember his name, that so we used to do quite a lot with those..quite a lot with the commercial people um, yeh, it was a big open plan office that was at the stage where big open plan offices weren’t the norm and open plan by accident so yeh there was a coffee machine there wasn’t a lot of idling fairly busy I don’t remember yeh, having much time chatting on corners in the office so to speak, but a, again it was unusual because I had cause, professional cause to talk to most, talk to most parts of the organisation so um, that’s what I did that’s what made my job fun.

D.H. Can you remember much about your early, your well first six months doing the um, working as a forklift driver?

S.G. Couple of weeks, yeh, I remember doing wheelies on forklift trucks in the wet um, I remember we were up in the top area it must have been a storage area alots of big ceilings I remember it being dark and gloomy I remember sort of wandering however I had one of these low level hand level forklift trucks that I was driving I don’t remember having any formal training, I remember the forklift was fairly new then called Lindy not Lindy in the forklift but short for Linda she was sort of the union rep for the forklift truck area. I was bored that was the other reason I.. 19-20 loads of energy I wanted to do something so, you know, being paid to do nothing on strike as a forklift driver was, was, you know, held no appeal for me at all. That was one of the other reasons I put my hand up to go to, to go a, a, to do Business Studies HND. Other than.. probably only did it for four to six weeks we did a, we asked to do lots of labouring jobs, moving the stores stuff, doing stock checks, I didn’t mind that at all but was.. a lot of other people did it wasn’t what you were suppose to do. Terry Christen that was his name, Terry’s the union rep and a progress chaser from Manchester nice chap the names come flooding back

D.H. Ok, I think I’ve covered most most things Steve um, well thank-you very much .

S.G. Thanks Dave.                  

D.H. Well, today David Hardill and Ewan MacCracken are interviewing Dave Bishop for the ‘Parnall Exhibition 2017’ it’s 5^th October 2016 and first of all Dave could you say a little bit about yourself? Date of birth and where you are from originally?

D.B. Well, my date of birth is 29^th of the third 1935. I was born in Winterbourne and that’s where I lived right up until I came to Yate in 1962 married a Yate girl and we married and we bought a house. Our first house was on Stanshawes estate where houses were just being built, and we stayed there from 1962 until 1977 when I moved over, we moved over to this abode where we are still am today, which is 109 Somerset Avenue. When I left school at 15 I didn’t really know what I wanted to do put it that way and although they would take you like Parnalls at 15 but you couldn’t start your apprenticeship until you were 16 so my first job was on the…I had an uncle working on the….at Stoke Gifford which is now…..it was Stoke Gifford goods yard but now it’s Parkway Station and I went up there and went in an office there just checking the goods all coming through there on the trains and one thing and another and I didn’t like the job and then I played football for Frampton Cotterell and our manager or supervisor in those day was a chap called Arthur Nelms and he worked in the tool room at Parnalls and he told me they were taking on apprentices which I later found out that they always kept 12 apprentices going through the five year scheme and I went up there for my interview and they then informed me that I could start my apprenticeship in, what are we on? 1951 aren’t we?

Yeah that’s fine and I started and then I carried on there for going a five year apprenticeship. In that time I was sent to a day school which was worth playing for, and we started down in Bristol but then we finished up a refurbished the what used to be the Muller Orphanage which is now a college isn’t it now? That’s where we went to finish up. One day a week we used to go up there. I wasn’t very good at taking nationals I wasn’t very good at writing things down put it that way but I was very good otherwise and anyway I didn’t get my national – I didn’t even get my City and……because if you weren’t quite good enough for nationals in those days you were taking the City and Guilds which is engineering and any rate I didn’t quite get that in the end but I was very near but after my five years apprenticeship as you can see it’s a very thorough apprenticeship you had different types of work to do every six months you were marked accordingly by your supervisor which was a chap called Fred Iles which was a very nice man

I served my apprenticeship then, before my apprenticeship finished I had my….they give you a fortnight’s notice I think it was to go in the RAF that where I was going and I was accepted in the RAF for two years National Service I came out and then I went back to Parnalls which in those days they were obligated to take you back if you wish to go and a there I went back to Parnalls and gradually worked my way up I started doing fitting to start with, which is allsorts of jobs as I went through my progress different scene milling, turning, grinding everything like that and I finished up jig boring and jig boring was a very well you had to be right on the button put it that way well, you were down to 10^th-1000^th of an inch and anyway  I took to jig boring very well and my supervisor Fred he gave me a recommendation and then one of the jig boring men I remember him now George.,..George Reed I think his name was he retired and I was asked to take his machine over and…which I did and there I stayed for the rest of my time in there ‘jig boring’ which I thoroughly enjoyed it was very a…..well, the press tools we had to make and all that in those days were more or less um, nothing like it is today put it that way, I mean now they get things……I mean in those day you made things or fitted it and ‘jig boarded it’ and then you had to send it for hardening which is a process where they harden the steel where it takes all the bumps out of it and a I then what shall I say became very intense really because when it was hardened it became very distorted had to come back and ….you had to get it back into shape again put it that way. Nowadays its pre hardened before and then they get electric wire cutters now that go through them, you know they get the steel after it hardened, you know they don’t get that. Um, I went on then well, doing some very big working in the end I mean as the press tools got you know we used to make press tools we used to make press tools one press tool there and they had to go to another section press tool there and get the shape you wanted but then they want to build multiple where I mean, you doing press tools I mean the bottoms we like from there to there

D.H. Ten feet

D.B.They could take it all off one operation and move it over to the other one then it came to auto and in the end you know it was all done all what you call it? Automation where as you get thing come in now and get them off there and sucker and move it over there the press goes up you’ve seen a press go?

D.H. Yeah, computerised isn’t it?

D.B. And so they gradually got more intense and more intense but I remember the holes you see at the back of the washing machine or a tumbler dryer you know? the back the hole all the way round but they used to that in three operations at one time and now they found a method, a chap called Nicholson in the drawing office and don’t forget in those days they had you know draughtsmen had to do big drawings you know and had to follow it through and anyway we went on from there and they were doing with that then with all those holes it was pressed in one operation rather than…..and another thing then came on the…..well it wasn’t anything to do with us well it was in the tool room a little bit we had this big study come in there where it was quickness of hands that move things from one place to another I mean in the beginning you know you had one operation going on here and they had to get employee to move it from there 100 yards down there well that was…..whether it could be done moving it from there to there you know what I mean it was…..I not talking about the tool room now I talking assembly now really but it did come into the tool room in the end where um, as I say we had to make all these tools for multiples I mean it was one operation and it was just pick it up and go over like that well I mean I haven’t been in there for years now but I…but when I left there in the beginning of to take on this on the machinery side anyway but….another thing the machine I worked the gentle boy which is a Swiss made um, machine and they were absolutely wonderful machines um, every six months you had a chappie come round from Geneva and checking or make sure measurements and your machine and all that you know up together another thing was we were temperature controlled room because um, you know in the evening time like it is now its colder and all that that can alter the …..if the room gets cold that can alter machines the if the you can do you know a couple of thou that isn’t much but other thing of course towards the end of my time was end of my time in there it went to metric which was um, a little bit of what you call it to start with that way but I had my machine converted where I could….in the beginning if the drawings came through in imperial put it that way, we had imperial measurements feet and inches to put it that way and a, but a, when the metric came in I had my machine altered if it came through from a drawing office in imperial I could put the machine on imperial, if it came as it gradually did in metric I could switch it over and the machine would do metric measurements so that was very complicated to start with I mean I know it gave it us I forget what they call them now what do they call them machine where you where one of the first come out…..

D.H. Some kind of converter?

D.B. Yeah, that right I forget they’re name now, but anyway

D.H. Some calculator

D.B. You’ve got it now, David, and um, and that’s how we used to do it they bought us this calculator and to…..there was three in the room where I was and we had to do we had to share it between us put it that way ha, ha, ha, but a, they were very good anyway have I done alright so far?

D.H. Yeah, yeah, no brilliant. I just want to ask a very general question was that you know was it a prestigious move you know, if you get an apprenticeship with Parnalls this is a good thing was it the case?

D.B. Without a doubt yes, yes as I say they well, I sure they I mean in our in those day you had about 70 or 80 blokes if you what I mean and they always kept the a nucleus of 12 apprentices going through the site so it was, it was, good to get an apprenticeship in those days but there was something you had to give up because the money wasn’t all that special for apprentices you took that and eventually thought after five years you be a skilled man and a you would um, reap the benefits of it, which probably we did, but um, well I’m not going to talk about the unions

D.H. Yeah a bit later, um, with regards to wages um, was it the case the if I’m a skilled um, a skilled engineer here I’ll be earning as much if not more that some factory in the area is that fair comment?

D.B. That’s a fair comment and a um, another thing what was um, after a few years you had all these um, units on trading estates around here I think there still going I think they are down on the North Road? I forget the name of that one and um, they were paying good money you know, cos they obviously did work for other firms I mean and some of our chaps left and went there and I was nearly on the point of going I thought about it and I went down and had a look about it really and the environment there was nowhere as good as we have um, low ceilings and all that you don’t to want to work in that all day long but that’s beside the point as well but a, I didn’t go and I stayed where I was and a I thoroughly we had a very good work force very nice people who I work with and a we got on as a family and we were after saying that forget the year you might have it David you know when the factory was cut in half nowhere near as…well it was cut in half and a because they were going through a bad time there were rumours that it was going to close and all that sort of thing I don’t know what year that was now

D.H. 82

D.B. At any rate they got rid of the toolmakers out of the tool room I was the one that was kept on um, and I stayed I mean you had the option I mean you could leave if you wanted of your own accord but I stayed and a, and I finished up there in 1999. In that time of course they moved the tool room, the tool room used to be on the front of the building when they cut the factory in half I mean they had office block all that there that went round and the machine shop went all the way down to the railway line out the back cos years ago when at first ‘Parnalls’ started they boring aircraft they used to move all they’re um, well products and I’m not talking about washing machines and that now I’m talking about      war and they used to move everything by rail you know it went down on the back and it went down on the back of Yate Station and out on rail that when my dad worked there then you know and any rate um, how far have we got now?

D.H. You’ve already mentioned about the other factory and the environment conditions then so what were your early memories when you went into the tool room what was it like? What did it look like? What did it sound, smell like?

D.B. Well, ha, ha, it was quite a large room, well it was an experience that you had to get used to, but it was….it was like walking into the factory it was a, it was a massive in those days but don’t forget that a where the assembly is now, was not there you walked down a drive and also on the drive was the air-raid shelter you know where the war and then you walked down this lane and then they built this um, well what was Saturday which is a Saturday now it may be now a store place I think you know a big cos everything went out of the top of the factory you know towards the main road put it that way. Of course there has been vast alterations since then haven’t there? If you know what I mean. It was massive and we had to walk up from where we worked up to the canteen for food, for lunchtimes and that sort of thing. That’s basically not there now they got a dining room whatever they call it now in the factory now isn’t it? I’ve not been in there since they’ve altered it not like that, but I can remember when they built that assembly I mean I don’t think it was built for assembly more or less to do with where they storage where they put the machines when they’ve been made go over there then transported from there out which is it still happens it still at the bottom of the place still transport them out all go right out the bottom which is assembly lines now by all accounts it is

D.H. When you were working there was it, was it the oldest part of the factory cos obviously there was the World War I build and then there was stuff built at the end of the War

D.B. We were just down the at the end of the… where the bomb hit I mean they are still there, I don’t know if the building is like it now but still remnants of the way it was built years ago with the big high roof and all that that was there and the tool room was right next to the what used to be the assembly line which is now I think is the press shop ‘cause the press shop was over the back towards the railway line and then they moved then and they moved the press shop over to where the assembly line was before this new building took over and then they built sort of bridges or tunnels across are they still there now? Have you been in there lately?

D.H. Not so I notice

D.B. They used to take the, that how it started off really, they used to take the machine and then they used to go across the road put it that way and down the other side to where they stored them really started and then eventually moved the assembly over to that side and a new building and so they didn’t need these tunnels so whether they still use them or whether they are still there or not I don’t know, no.

D.H. Taking a look round in the tool room what sort of things were people wearing? What were you able to wear how did that change?

D.B. Usually you had to supply your own in those days, so chaps wore overalls you know, some of them wore like just coats if you know what I mean. And eventually as it went on and on, I mean the firm supplied your working clothes for you or your top anyway and you were expected to wear them. In the end when I started you had to take your own, well I always wore an overall, but then you had to take that home and get it washed and put clean on. The heating in those days was very, in the tool room especially, not at all special not in the big tool room as I say in where I was it was temperature controlled because they used to come there in cold mornings to get warmed up because you had all this like units supposed to be blowing out hot air if you know what I mean and all that sort of thing and sometimes it was all water they’d leak you get leaks and that had some of them breakdown, I’ve known in winter they’ve been in there….the tool makers have been in there with scarves around their neck ha, ha, ha, yeah, yeah, but a…..

D.H. But being in the tool room, a tool maker, a skilled tool maker did that? I mean you were fairly high up therefore in kind of prestige stakes or pecking order if you like, so presumably therefore you were able to get you know, better wages than obviously somebody less skilled?

D.B. Obviously that was the idea. In those days you had the AEU which was skilled and had the Transport and General which was called semi-skilled in those days. To go in the tool room you had to belong to the AEU union. We had shop stewards and I was just saying that card of mine where the shop steward would come round and make sure you kept your payments up to date put it that way. We used to lock over union meetings in the Railway and also started off in the Railway Hotel but that was just down from Jackson’s. In those days there was no social club or anything and what shall I say? We used to go down there and there used to be quite a few of us if one couldn’t make I would take say three or four of our membership fees and hand them in to the convener. Eventually moved from there to Shire Way when that was built. But as for prestige if you were skilled you went for to make yourself a little bit better that way you got more money at the end of your apprenticeship which I think exists now to a certain extent. I mean when you’re young you start off don’t you? You get taught by these good blokes, good tool makers in those days, and you were put with and they would teach you all what they know and it still goes on today in a certain degree it has to because you know, they you’ve got to learn, you’ve got to learn from somebody who had some experiences as simple as that and I was taught very well by all the members, all the chaps I went with any rate they were very good.

D.H. I was going to ask Dave you mentioned the unions there. How did that change over the years? I mean 1951, was everybody in a union? How did that change?

D.B. In the tool room, if we are going back to the unions, if you want my view on that? We were in the Union and we were in the AEU in those days there was a lot of unions AEU, Transport and General now I think there is only Unite I think they call it, I hear about it and read about it, I still get correspondence from the AEU sometimes now but I don’t bother with them now, but that’s besides the point. Going back to the AEU it was skilled and the Transport and General were semi-skilled and to come in to the tool room at Parnalls you had to be a member of AEU. Now going back to the Transport and General falling out basically because what shall I say the Transport and General thought the tool room only made screwdrivers and things like that, but we were making the tools for them to earn their living if you know what I mean, we had nothing against them what’s so ever I mean they were good people, but we had a, I don’t want this, could I mention his name or not?

D.H. Well, if you keep the names out just describe…

D.B. The head of the Transport and General Steward he more or less had against skilled people and honestly he wanted to get the semi-skilled wages up and it was him and his henchmen put it that way the shop stewards, they caused a lot of trouble there in my opinion any rate. We had our own disputes in the tool room I mean one of our favourite things was, the firm you could supply all your equipment put it that way. I’ve got a tool box out there and I’ll show you it, we had a store keeper in the tool room where as if you wanted a drill then you had five checks and that means to say you could get things out of there like hydrometers, drills, height gauges. Anything like that you had to go and you had to put a check in and then he would give it to you and when you took it back you had your check back – it’s only a little disc like a two pence piece. It gradually started to intrude on the tool room and this particular man, we had a universal grinder leave and then a vacancy occurred, and he got on it by saying, this man, he had been a universal grinder in another company before he came here I don’t know where the company was any rate he said this man if he was accepted in the tool room he would become a member of the AEU alright? So after a lot of to and fro-ing he came in he was alright I mean you know, any rate, after a couple of months he went to our shop steward and said ‘I’m reverting now I don’t want to be a member of the AEU I’m going back to the Transport and General but I still want to stay where I am’ so you can see what sort of problem that caused So any rate, it took a long time and a lot of bitter things going on between us before eventually he was took back out of the tool room, but he was still on the same wages that he got when he came in the tool room and that was an increase on what he was getting. Well, that caused really uproar that did and in the end I mean, what the Transport and General Workers were done then was they were alright there was improvements in the way that things were made and all that it was vastly getting better and I can remember the drums which is the drums of the tumble dryer or washing machines in those days as well but without a drum I mean you can’t make a machine can you? If you know what I mean. And they were obviously they were right up there because they had to keep up with the production if you know what I mean and that was the first ones they went along they were hard working and they were good but eventually they got I mean I can remember the management in them in those days and this henchman of the Transport and General he was a nice bloke in a way,  but he was dead against the AEU you know, he wanted, I mean they were going for meetings at the Stanshawes Court Hotel you know with the management to get this work and more money for this particulars I forget the name they called them now but they had to keep up with the production put it that way. And eventually they swang round to their way to an extent you know, but the other ones I think it came in then where all throughout the factory it was a case of movement as I said they brought this firm in to study in it and everything had to be within reach and you moved down to the next one especially on a Saturday if you know what I mean, everything had to be that much quicker and a that’s they went from there, but we had some very difficult times between the AEU and the Transport

D.H. This was later; this was later on, in what 60s/70s?

D.B. Oh, yes this was later on, not when I started there, there was no problems at all really then I mean one was semi-skilled I mean the semi-skilled were on bonus earnings whereas in the tool room where I was no bonus you know you had a time to do a job and say it was 200 hours and if you didn’t quite finish it in 200 hours there was a lot of questions asked but I mean in that 200 hours a lot of things crop up you know where and you used to get extra time on the end but made you work within limits and you were disciplined put it that way ‘what have you been doing?’, but there again don’t forget in the tool room there was ever so many personnel involved making a press tool, you start off with the material coming in and a, it might be cloth, metal steel whatever you like but a, then first of all the fitter would take over. The fitter would be the first to get the job and then on after the fitting then going through it had to go to all the services like a jig boarding turning mending all that had to go through when everything like that was done it went back to the fitter to um, put everything together put it that way and a, but a, as I say we had no bonus or anything in the tool room we just had rely on the wages that we were offered and don’t forget um, we had some…..we used have….when heard of all these rises going on in the other factories put it that way, we a….we, we would a, get the union chap out from Bristol and um, he would go through it, we’d been on dispute for tuppence an hour and I’m talking of old 2pence ha, ha, ha, yeah, any rate a some got satisfied, well you know, about more rights some didn’t, you know, that when you’d hear about people earning more than these others were earning they were leaving you know what I mean, what happened between ‘Parnalls’ and ‘Newman’s’ I got no idea we don’t um, we didn’t correspond with them what so ever, not ‘Newman’s’ any rate, but I know they had a tool room up there I mean it was obvious everybody had tool rooms in those days factories any rate. It’s like the ones that became BOAC were like can’t you?

D.H. Yeah, yeah, Can I ask Dave um, how did people generally get on with management how did that, did that change over the years or ….?

D.B. I don’t think it did the management were always um, well, they changed the management so quite a bit, you know, through the years but a, we had names for them! When the factory was a cut in half put it that way that year it was um, managing director then was a John and we used to call him ‘chopper John’ he had to chop so many people and the works manger was a chap called ‘Smith’ and we used to call him ‘chipper Smith’ cos he used to chip in ha, ha, and a, but they done a good job and a, it was John that a, saved that place because he was a very nice man he was, and after him we had um, a chap called Bert Pugsley which is the one I showed you there he came in and he was very nice man, he came round every morning, every morning he’d be round just after half seven um, and a, make sure any complaints you only had to tell him and then he would bring it up whoever it was intended for and bring them up during the day if you know what I mean, if you had any complaints you’d tell him and he would accept it and he probably come back the next day and tell you what he had done or what he tried to do put it that way, to put thing right. But a, he was a very nice man Mr. Pugsley yeah

D.H. Did you have any dealings with the office staff at all in general there was that…..was it very demarcated between shop floor and office?

D.B. There was a little bit I suppose the only people we had over there was draughtsmen and field any complaints with the drawings a draughtsman would come over of course they had a head of department over there it was Ralf Hodge and Nicolson in those days was in charge of that sort of thing, you can’t remember what the office block was like you never seen it have you?

D.H. No, no

D.B. Well you had a big pool of typists there a big pool of draughtsmen over there all the way round like more senior people had their own little offices you know, well it isn’t like that now it’s all in together and then they all had their own secretaries all that sort of thing. We never used to get involved with any of them um, only perhaps go over the wages department if your wages weren’t right at the end of week, ha, ha, It was nothing like it was then you clocked in everyday you had a time keeper. You had a time keeper like in the tool room you had to clock on a job and once you’ve done your bit you clocked off that job and clocked on another job and at the end of the day he had to go right through everything you know, to see how many hours like I explained before how many hours had gone on the job and a, we never got involved with anyone except the draughtsmen and there was quite a few of them and they used to be very good. When I left there I can remember they were beginning to bring out little drawings like this you know what I mean

D.H. About A4

D.B. Computer, no not computer more a printing to do, but the drawing we could have they used to have to ever seen a draughtsman’s ……

D.H. Yes, I know what you mean

D.B. I mean it was a massive thing you had to put everything down in detail and a, yeah, that’s how it was in those days I’m afraid. As I say going back to the office staff and all only the draughtsmen really that we were really concerned with, they would come over and see us therefore we never went over in the office to see them, no, you send a request over and they would come over to a sort it out what was the problem what went wrong you know, or what you thought was wrong. That’s it

D.H. I was just going to ask the workforce that you remember the people that you were aware of you described quite a few different mainly men what sort of background were they and can you describe of the people you knew of, what were they like?

D.B. Well, they were very down to earth people they were yeah, they were good people there were obviously some people you didn’t get on with most of them they were alright I mean they used to come I think there were loads and loads of local people in them days that but they still used to come on a train from Bristol and used to run up through Staple Hill, Mangotsfield, to get on. My um, one of my um, best mates he was another jig board by the side of me he came from Dursley but he was, he worked up Dursley when the barns were bombed if you know what I mean and when they had a little factories then Dursley way didn’t they and all round there and then they still came and when they came back down to Yate they used to come on the train, he used to get on the train at Berkeley Road which is on the A38 going towards Gloucester and a yeah and the long weekends and of course we used to do weekend working then in those days when the train didn’t run they used to drive their own car between them three or four of them use to live up….well certainly Durley/Wotton-under-edge way there were a lot of people who came from Wotton-under-edge way down there and they used to run a coach from um, the other way say Badminton up that way several coaches, I used to come on a coach from um, well when I started my apprenticeship I rode my bike from Winterbourne to Jackson’s or Parnalls everyday and then a I went to motor bike and rode that and then a also the motor cycle I had I used to ride it if I was working overtime. If I was working overtime I caught a coach he picked you up at the Swan at Winterbourne I used to get on he used to a about 7 o’clock at the stop then a end of the working day which was a I can’t remember something like ten past five like that it was we finished and then the coach went home, well, if you were working overtime I mean that was no good for you was it so I mean I used to ride a motor bike then if I knew I was working overtime and we used to do weekend working then aswell I can remember one year I went in there we had a job that um, our foreman you had a set time you had to get they wanted to order a new model or some alterations you had to tighten you had to look for that and we were getting a bit behind and I never had a day off and I went in after Christmas and I never had a day off until the Easter I worked seven days and another time we were pushed for a time and I worked nights for a couple of weeks and they put another chap on my machine in the daytime and I went in (well there was three of them actually) and a, we worked, we worked we were getting a bit behind and we worked nights and that machine was kept going 24hours of the day put it that way but that was a……..now what we taking about? What did you want to know now? About who?

D.H. Well you were taking about the work force I was wandering did you have anybody were there people from other countries certainly in the early fifties you’d see people after the War there were people who had been refugees and …was there anybody like that or was it mainly kind of local Yate/Bristolian?

D.B. The first people I can remember coming from a foreign country were from Pakistani’s we used to call them as they were only semi-skilled, you don’t get many, not then, there was one or two that came through that were office material but a, they were more or less just looking for um, more less labouring jobs really that all I can remember about them and they always used to…they had a different um, what’s it called protocol than we had for their food and things like that if you know what I mean, I can remember in those days they used to have their own what you call ‘paint shop’ whereas they used to do all the spraying of the ….I’m talking about the cabinets of the….phone rings

D.H. So you were saying about…..so there were different a races different cultures were at ‘Parnalls’?

D.B. Well, then we started getting the what you call them coloured people coming in

D.H. West Indians

D.B. Yeah, West Indians and people like that yeah, but they were very they were very scarce in those days, Pakistani’s I mean we had a labourer come in we are going back to the the way they used to ‘spray shop’ there was a lot of them employed in there they used to have to move all the cabinets when they had finished spraying and out then, the way they used to sit down for their food I mean they would get some hot strips of call it cardboard or what they used to put in-between the things to stop them getting scratched they would get them and they would all sit on the floor if you know what I mean and they would sit down with their legs crossed like that and they were eating their…..how can I pronounce that curry smell what they used to do I don’t know that was how it was. You very rarely see them come up to the canteen for dinner or anything like that

D.H. Were there many…did you come across any female staff?

D.B. Not many

D.H. Right,

D.B.No not many, what you mean different

D.H. In any of the departments

D.B. Oh, yeah of course there weren’t any in the tool room only our store keeper was a she was a lady arh, she was in the ‘tool room’ she was the only lady in the ‘tool room’ in other parts of the factory it was quite mixed, generally more men than ladies. I can remember there was one chap (that another thing you could change your job quite easily in those days) and I can remember a chap who lived down course when I started there was any Cranleigh Court if you know what I mean none of the houses were there and we had one entrance to come out of the place what you call it now the houses that are built behind the factory now Parnalls Drive and Parnalls Crescent yeah as none of that was there that was all factory and you had the tip down there and all that and there was none of that. I can remember when I went there they had a it wasn’t an aerodrome then it was still basically a great big huge expanse of field and then of course Cranleigh Court got built then on the on the where it is now and I can remember a chap coming up he lived down Cranleigh Court and its quite easy… he was one of these chaps when he came up there he didn’t know if he had to turn left for ‘Newman’s’ or right for ‘Parnalls’ he’d worked in both, he stay in ‘Parnalls’ for a couple of years and he would leave and go up ‘Newman’s’ and then he’d come back and he’d get the job back again no discrimination you know, he worked in the ‘machine shop’ he was good but a, but there again they were after their bonus earnings aswell. In those days you had rate fixers aswell which a… they used to a time people, how long they did the job and things like that they’d put a rate on it and they could make two hundred in the time they are supposed to make a hundred well they got bonus earning on that you know, so yeah. In the end we did have a little bonus scheme in the ‘tool room’ actually that was one of the disputes that came over money and they granted us a bonus they, they….like I say they put 500 hours on making a press tool then, now then if you did it in 300 then you get……but that was a general bonus in the ‘tool room’ everybody got the same you know if you got a bonus where you got paid weekly in those days of course aswell and a, if a, everybody in the ‘tool room’ had the same no matter so long as the time was made on that particular job then everybody got a share of it, you know, not the one that worked on it but the other ones aswell. That worked as that say that was a bit more money put it that way that was one of the saying they brought in. Another thing was um, a toolmaker always used to recon on his own tool box or make tools I’m about measuring like micrometres and all that sort of thing and um. Do they use micrometres these days? I don’t know, have you ever seen them micrometre?

D.H. I’m not sure certainly not at the moment

D.B. I’ll show you my toolbox out there, I don’t know if you, I want to get rid of it

D.H. Small companies perhaps, small companies use them

D.B. I’ve had ever since I left and I got it out last night and I um, I’ll give it to any apprentice or anybody who is interested in engineering if you know what I mean, um, because

D.H. We will look shortly, Dave can I ask you must have seen big changes in the Health and safety over 48 years how that all

D.B. First of all you had a lot um, you had a lot um, people getting bits of metal in their eyes and things like that, they also had things that could fall on people’s feet

D.H. Yeah,

D.B. They started off by giving us um, if you wore glasses you had a, they started off giving you something to cover it if you know what I mean, come down the side and then as it progressed you had um, prescription glasses, but you always used to have glasses, you always used to a piece down there so nothing could get in on the side and then they started bringing you in foot ware where you had steel toecaps, so if you droped anything on your feet it would limit the damage done anyway and a, but if you didn’t have them on, they used to pay…. buy them for us in the end, ‘Tough’ I think was the firm in those days arh if you didn’t wear them and you had an injury well you were sunk just the same if you had glasses that was a tremendous thing in those days people going down the eye hospital with bits of grit in their eyes or metal and that sort of thing and a they were going down there you know two or three a week. Cos they go to the first-aid and um, course you would be sent down there because they could mess abut with it really and a any rate if you didn’t have your equipment on and there was no way you could…..which was good in the company ways, well it was costing a fortune in sending people down there, cos in those days you had chauffeur driven cars for the manger director and that sort of thing like you know, you had chauffeurs in there and um, um, you used get them to take you down the eye hospital and a, I went down there once or twice it was only because you had something in your eye but in the end you had this protection and if you didn’t wear it you know….

D.H. These ways were coming in in the seventies were these protective…..?

D.B. Seventies or eighties I would say, yeah, yeah

D.H. One final thing, the social side of it, were people socialising together at the factory how did that work?

D.B. Well, we used to have the use of…take us in and have Top Rank and that in Bristol once a year for a big company you know a, night if you wanted to go, coaches provided and all that sort of thing and the ‘tool room’ we used to have our own dinner once a year, the ‘tool room’ cos I used to go around and collect the money and I think we used to pay in a shilling a week and then we used to go up a Stanshawes that’s there now isn’t it? And course that was all derelict after the war, until they refurbished it and we used to have our own tool room dinner every year up there and you could take your wives with you and you used to have a very good night, yeah, and I can remember when one year it was a company dance not dinner dance just a dance it was and they decided to have it in the big office block and believe me, if there had been a fire that night, it was absolutely chock-a-block. The people were at the bar and they had the bar upstairs which was the wages department and come down the stairs and there was no emergency really if you know what I mean. They only done it once and well obviously they how they got away with it….no they wouldn’t. After that they hired the canteen in those days was quite big and we used to have our own dinner not dinner/dances but dances about once a month up there with all entertainment on and all that and that used to be very well attended.

D.H. Is this the Jackson’s social club?

D.B. Well it was just before that, that was the beginning of it then, cos that’s where we started off I mean they used to go up Stanshawes and get the beer on a Saturday lunchtime. We used to set up a bar, you know, in the corner and then it went on from there then, and don’t forget that canteen had one of the best stages the old canteen I’m talking about now, in around this area, you know, lovely stage curtains you had, you know, doors either side for the um, entertainers to make their way up and we used to have some very good acts there in those days when we started off, but then it gradually of course it got to…..what year when they….I retired just as they were knocking it down and refurbishment.

D.H. Yeah, 2001-2002.

D.B. Cos I was one of the ones that started that social club going, me and a chap called Chris Hawkins and well Don Russell, a chap called Don Russell really in charge of the…..cos in those days like now, if you’d got a bar, alright you can make money if you know what I mean, if you get people it like anywhere and gradually we built up from there and built up from there and of course when we had a change of manager come there he didn’t like the way social club was being run ‘cos he thought it was a……I think his name was Bradley um, that was where all the plots were hatched in the club in a evening and um, he closed it down it was closed for a couple of years and um, that was before it was refurbished and um, any rate um, he closed it down well then he left and a, another chap came in and he was all for it so it was reopened again and it has gone on from there, I don’t know I’ve heard through the grapevine that Parnalls might be closing is that right?

D.H. Oh, I don’t know that’s a…

D.B. It’s been taken over now by Whirlpool now isn’t it?

D.H. Yeah, it has

D.B. I heard through the grapevine that they are going to move it all to America is that right?

D.H. Arh, I don’t know that’s something we won’t include

D.B. I’ve only heard that because Whirlpool took it over and they doing tremendously well in the carpark. They are working nearly 24 hours a day now I would think aren’t they? They are certainly working now the shifts have altered. That was another thing that happened in the tool room they started to call us in if anything went wrong, if something went wrong in the middle of the night. They used to run a night shift in the press shop and all that then and if anything went wrong in the middle of the night then there was no-one to say or do something about it, they started putting us on call-out and then we could come home and there used to be two of us on a call-out your time came round about every couple of months put it that way. If your pager went in the middle of the night you had to go in and a see what you could do cos Isle of Wight that machine or he wouldn’t be any good until the next morning cos after then they started bringing in shift work in the tool room which was 6to2 and….6to2 and it was then the afternoon shift used to start at midday and go on until 8 o’clock at night a ten hour day and any rate they went on from there and gradually they found out it was costing them a little bit too much because we used to get well paid for that.  If you got called in between 10 and midnight you had the next morning off and if you went on and got the job done and went home after midnight I think it was before 4 o’clock in the morning then you had the next day off [laughs] and it didn’t happen that often but we used to get good when you were on this call out you used to get paid you know and eventually they found that was too hot so eventually they started bringing in cover for 24 hours. Another thing they did they altered the shift pattern, years ago it was 6 to 2, 2 to 10pm and then you had a 10 to 6 working at nights and of course it used to cost them a little bit of money but then so they offered they altered the shift pattern from 7 o’clock in the morning to 3 in the afternoon which meant they didn’t have to pay shift allowance because you got shift allowance if you went in at six in the morning and then they put the evening went from three until 11 I thinks it’s all changed again now hasn’t it? I mean they’re working now I still go down now on their skills once a week, and yeah they’re there until midnight and gone I would think. I mean the car park is absolutely packed especially around the ten o’clock mark but um, that’s the way they all rely on the shift allowance [laughs]

D.H. One final question Dave. There was a period where I think there were um, kind of sports days, community events on the remaining bits of the old airfield; do you remember anything about those?

D.B. Yeah, yeah, that’s started off I think I only went once or twice I think it was only once they had the sports day there, they’d never allow anything like that years ago not even when we had a bigger expanse of field. I can remember we had a cricket pitch out there, they had a cricket wicket out there one year and we played cricket against one another you know, and I can remember that sports day they allowed people in the factory and certain people to show the visitors around. You had a tent in those days for people who had what they had done at home, their hobbies. My uncle was a very good, like making up little farm carts and they had another chap there that used to do lovely glass etching and that sort of thing and I brought these in this tent and they showed off what they did for their hobbies. We didn’t make no money out of it for it cost more money to hire the tent. We charged sixpence to a shilling to go in and have a look at that and we lost a lot of money on that one. There was loads of things going, there was sports but I think it only happened once I don’t think they would allow it then. We had visitor days and I can remember when they opened the factory up to family where you could  bring where you could have the family come and walk round certain parts of the factory then you weren’t allowed to go and the tool room was one of them um,

D.H. You said about the allowing was that just because they could afford to do it or was there some other reason why you weren’t allowed?

D.B. It was never heard of, never heard of really, I don’t think so anyway, people were surprised when they came in ‘oh, look at that, and look at that’ and that sort of thing you know, but they were never allowed inside again but that’s sports day was a, it was good, it was good but um, you could see that it wasn’t going to survive sort of many years put it that way because it was a…..it took a lot of organising in the end we were making things and probably doing things we shouldn’t be doing because we I mean the way of we’ll get that its only pieces of wood or a….and things like that if you know what I mean a lot more seals I suppose it used to go off the firm and bag the money I suppose but I don’t think they bothered to, but they were allowed to walk round parts of the factory on that day aswell I think and also after that we had a couple of  ‘visiting days’ where um, the factory was opened up to the families and you had to record who you were bringing and all that sort of thing you know, but um, it wasn’t ……security wasn’t tight but um, it was tight but um, it was nothing like it is probably is today plus not in the other factories I’m on about ‘Jackson’s’ now or ‘Parnalls’ but um, I mean the way they’ve got it now with barriers and all that now and barriers open and things like that, I mean the policeman on the gate then was just old friends put it that way ha, ha, ha, I can remember when as a policeman…… there was a police….when the traffic began to get more tense out on the main road they asked and they did appoint one of the policemen whoever was on going home time to stand out in the middle of that road and direct don’t forget there was a bottom gate like it is now and they call the top gate well I mean that road going down to um,  going behind where it is what’s the name that road there?

D.H. Station Road

D.B. Coming along,

D.H. Longs Drive

D.B.The entrance at the top at the top of the car park you know there is no road going down to what are we talking about arh, round behind ‘Jackson’s’

D.H. You mean Longs Drive

D.B. There was no longs drive there and a the top gate where exactly at the bottom gate on the building and a the policeman he had to go out and direct the traffic and they chose (it would be allowed these days would it?) he had to go out there and stand in the middle of that road and um, arh, direct the traffic, like so many go down the road then let so many go out of the car park if you know what I mean because that was when the coaches finished then for I mean they did away with people coaching because people started drive their own cars and that you know what I mean. I mean there used to be lots of coaches come all different places and ‘Newmans’ used to be the same I mean they used to run ‘Newmans’ coaches then they used to stop down at ‘Newmans’ by the fish shop there ‘Pisces’ you know they were all lined up there that a the coaches in ‘Jacksons’ or ‘Parnalls’ could stay in the car park and then they come straight out on the main road and then like I say this….then that didn’t last very long because I think a couple of our security had ‘near misses’ if you know what I mean, they would never allow it these days would they I mean you have to be a proper policeman to do that if you know what I mean. What else did you want to know?

D.H. I think that’s um, we covered the main bits so I was just going to say thank-you very much for a very detailed description of

D.B. That’s all

D.H. The life of ‘Parnalls’

D.B. There is probably some things I’ve missed I enjoyed my time there and a like I say I was lucky I done my I done my forty years…well forty eight years in the end

D.H. Perhaps some thing was…were you always working on um, washing machines/tumble dryers were you working on other because ‘Parnall’s’ made all sorts of things didn’t they

D.B. We did sub-contract work we did a lot of a sub-contract work for ‘Dowty’ which was the I mean they are well known Gloucester We used to do a lot of work for ‘Western House’ which they did a lot of work on railways they used to do certain things on the railways on the carriages we did a lot of work for them, we did sub-contract work BOAC in those days aswell you know, if we got a little bit short and we certainly had a very um, strong section there for ‘Dowty’ you know in their own right down the bottom there used to be a chap called Denis Latterfield who used be in charge of that and he um, he was well eventually he went up to Haniswell in the end he yaeh, and there was another good friend Derek Watts he was apprentice with me he um, he was um, pretty good designer put it that way, he was one of the first in my opinion, I think he was had the inclination for tumbler dryers

D.H. Oh,

D.B. Derek Watts, yeah. Have you ever seen the first ever one they brought out, tumbler dryer?

D.H. I’ve got a photograph of it

D.B. Because when I started there it was just after the War and a went to making clocks to start with and then it went on from there then they gradually decided to bring out the four washing machines and then a that was more a mechanical thing than anything else, with all the….don’t forget in those days when ever because everything was made at ‘Parnalls’ everything even down to your nuts and bolts if you know what I mean, and then over the years of course it’s got that um, it didn’t make sense did it? I mean  just like in the tool room I mean when you get um, have you ever heard of dowels where you put things together because you can have screws to put things together but it might not go back by rights so if you got a dowel and it’s a round dowel and a you put that dowels in place and you take apart you can put it back together and it goes in exactly the same place um, but um, we used to make them ourselves aswell even for the tool room and an any rate going on and going on eventually they started and it made sense really it’s just like um, the factory now tumbler dryers they used to make tumbler dryers, cookers, you know, washing machines you know what I mean but it made sense when they……well we are going to have that factory for one thing we’ll have another factory for another and another factory for another if you know what I mean and then there used to be allsorts going on there you know at one time, yeah, so I can remember that we used to make the we used to everything it was brought out there was made there that was why they had such a huge work force there, they used the machine shop you know and the tool room and all that sort of thing cos in the end I can remember some of the tools um, being made in Birmingham and then brought down to um, they even sourced them out they even sourced out pressed tools we never thought they were made in Birmingham we never used have the time to make any cos we never had the workforce

[David Hardill]

So today I’m interviewing Mr. Keith Mainstone, still of Yate, for the the Work and Play exhibition marking the end of the Station Road, Parnell, Jackson, Creda site. So Keith, would you mind just saying a few things about yourself, who you are, date of birth, and maybe just a few things about being brought up in Yate.

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, that’s right, I’m sort of a local lad, I mean I originally come from Arranacton, which is just down the road obviously from Yate, and again I left school and like a lot of people I didn’t really know what I wanted to do, and then they were advertising for apprenticeships, it’s Parnell Ltd then I believe it was, so I went along and had an interview with Andy Bormane and Margaret, yeah, with Margaret as well as his secretary, and I was lucky enough to be one of the twelve that we took that particular year, which was 1966-67, and I enrolled as an apprenticeship, which was five years, and it was a mechanical engineering apprenticeship.

[David Hardill]

You went for a job at Parnell rather than Newman’s or any other job?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, no particular reason, it’s just that at the time I could see that they wanted apprenticeships in Parnell, so I went along there, and as I say there were twelve of us that they took on that particular year, and I didn’t know what was in tower, but I’d actually done 40 years of towering totally in the end on the maintenance.

[David Hardill]

Did you have any idea about what Parnell’s was like, or did it mean anything, you know when you were thinking about what jobs I’m going to do, oh there’s the Parnell factory, did it have any meaning, were there any family members maybe that…

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, my father worked in there when it was, I think they used to do the gun turrets there didn’t they, for the tanks and stuff I believe, so I knew it had a history of the World War, but basically no, I was a bit sort of naive on that, you know, although my father was in the army, he didn’t, I know he came across and talked a little bit about it, but mainly I know he did work in Parnell’s on the gun turrets, yeah. So it was a job?

Yes, it was a job.

[David Hardill]

And so how did you find out about the sort of jobs that were coming up, was it just kind of common knowledge?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I think it was in the local paper, probably the Gazette I would imagine at the time, or maybe the Evening Post, because working online then you had to sort of go in and write a letter, and then obviously they said would you come in for an interview, so we kicked off from there really in 66, 67. Yes, it was good.

[David Hardill]

So when you first went to Parnell’s, and you go through the gate, can you remember what it looked like?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I mean it was a large factory, it was quite daunting really going in there for the first time, because it was very large, there were buildings everywhere, and yeah it was quite, I think there was a listed building there, isn’t there now I believe, I’m not quite sure, but yes it was quite daunting because it was a really big factory, and as you say in the heyday I think there was over 2,000 working there I believe. Yes, and when I’d done my apprenticeship we went around all the different departments, you know, as part of your apprenticeship, you know, so we got to know the factory really well by covering all those departments.

[David Hardill]

Were there any parts of the factory that really kind of stood out in terms of what they looked like?

[Keith Mainstone]

I think going in as a 16 year old, I mean the press shop was really daunting because they were 400 ton presses, and they were like floor to ceiling basically, they were massive, and that was quite an eye-opener because they were such big machines, and I didn’t know eventually that I would end up repairing them, or helping to do it, that’s where my forte was, I mainly stayed in the press shop as time went on, you know, but yeah that was quite daunting, but then you had all the overhead conveyors, you know, they were obviously transporting all the components from one department to another, you know, and so on, so that was quite daunting, all the conveyors going around in the roof, roof space so to speak, and then there was the, it was a listed building I believe, it was a wooden construction wasn’t it, Belfast Roof, that’s right, and that was a marvellous piece of engineering, that really stuck in my mind, I used to look up there all the time and think, wow, how did they possibly build that in the time, you know, that was really really short after that building was, and I believe, I got a feeling at one time, I think it caught fire, I believe they were doing a repair to the roof and something went wrong, and I know at one time it was on fire, so luckily they managed to get that out before any serious damage, you know, yeah.

[David Hardill]

So when, so in 1966 to 2006, obviously huge changes, that’s right, one of the changes was quite, quite a lot of the factories knocked down, so could you remember much about that and what it looked like after?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I mean, obviously I was there and I could picture all the heavy machinery and, you know, obviously knocking it all down, and then obviously at the back there was, houses were put up weren’t they, on I think it’s Longe Drive, I think it was called, wasn’t it, one of the routes, but yes, I can remember all that construction going on, yeah I can, yeah.

[David Hardill]

So you’ve alluded to the various jobs you’ve done, so can you describe some of what you would be doing, you know, maybe in the early days, some of the ones that, jobs that stand out or?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I mean, obviously the motor shop was really, really buzzing then, you know, I think it all went to Romania in later years, but I used to work with Colin Groves a lot in the motor shop, we used to repair all the, like the winding machines, that was quite, and then we done overhead conveyors, we used to repair the conveyors, we had a lot of roller track to transport the, the terminal dryers in the correct sort of position, so obviously that was to maintain those, press shop, that was, it was a big press shop then, they had, I think, about 30 small presses, and about certainly 15 large presses, 400 ton presses, so mainly I was working on, on those, and obviously it was quite interesting when the factory inspector was coming in, we had to make sure everything was up to standard, so it was, and it was a variation of jobs, it was very interesting because you weren’t quite sure what you were going to do day by day, it was very interesting to be fair.

[David Hardill]

Did, I mean, we go into these various places, I mean, you described it visually, I mean, what about sound, smell?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yes, I mean, the press shop was very noisy, but you can imagine these 400 ton presses going over, and we had to, obviously, wear ear defenders, and very often you had to have your ears. From day one? No, I think it was later that was, yes, I think when we first went in we didn’t have them now, but as time went on we did, and then we had to have our ear in test as well, and very often that hasn’t syringed out as well, so it was very noisy, the press shop, very noisy, and you know, you had to sort of really shout over, really, to overcome the noise of the presses, yeah, it was really…

Were there places in the factory you preferred to go to, or feared going to, or wanted to avoid? The spin dryer section, when they used to do spin dryers, that was quite interesting because that was quite straightforward, like the production line. They also did microwaves there, I can remember we used to go over there, and there wasn’t a lot to maintain on those two sections, but I mainly enjoyed it in the press shop myself, that was where I ended up really doing most of my time in later years, you know?

Yeah, so did you ever get to go to the foundry, or was that…? Not so much, but we did, yeah, we did have die casting machines up there, obviously, and but I didn’t do a great deal in the foundry, we had, I think we had at one time about 15 on the maintenance, so we had various sections we’d done, but yes, I didn’t cover that much in the foundry now. So in terms of doing maintenance, so what would you, what would you have been wearing? Obviously we had our safety boots, that was essential, and we always wore a boiler suit, yes, that’s right.

And did, was that more or less the same all the way through, or was it…? Yes, I believe so, and then when we done overhead conveyors, you know, we used to have a scissor lift very often, and then we had our hard hats and protective gloves if we had to, if we needed them. So the same in 66 as in 2006, or…? I think basically, yeah, it was all obviously safety wear was in then, um, I think perhaps eye protection might have come in a little bit more and, and stuff, but basically it was the safety shoes and the boiler suit that was part of the maintenance kit when I first went in, yeah.

[David Hardill]

You mentioned kit, so what sort of tools or what sort of equipment did you have to sort of carry around, I presume?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, we had, um, you know, a pair of, obviously our toolboxes were quite heavy, so we had, we had sack trucks to transport them, you know, to various, um, shops or depart, uh, workshops, and, um, there was also, um, um, a store in particular, um, departments where we could maintain and get our spares from there, and we used to sort of draw the spares from there to repair, but also we used to make some stuff ourselves, you know, we used to use the milling machine, uh, the lathe, and various, you know, we used to do quite a lot of pipe work as well, so we used to do a lot of our own pipe work with the threading machines and stuff. So you did spend a certain amount of time in the machine shop and the tool room?

Yes, yes, as an apprentice, we, we went all around the factory, and, um, yes, we don’t quite, I know, I know I went with a pipe fitter, his name was Norman Powell, he was really good, um, so I was quite lucky to go with Norman because he was a very good pipe fitter, so I learned off of him, and, but my main, my main guy, I suppose they call it a mentor now, but my man that when I was learning as an apprentice, it was a guy by the name of Des Baker, and he was really a top, um, a top mechanical engineer, and I was very lucky to go with him, to be fair, and, and also I worked a lot with Colin Groves as well, which was excellent.

[David Hardill]

Yeah, so, uh, your memories of the, especially 66 to 2006, my understanding of later years, there were far more people involved in assembly.

[Keith Mainstone]

Yes.

[David Hardill]

But what was the kind of divide in, say, 1966 between, say, the engineering shops and the assembly work?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I think, um, as the time went on that there was a three-shift system in place, um, obviously, earlys, lates, and nights, and I think they had quite a large production on nights as well, you know, on the, on the assembly lines, um, and there was, say, there was a big influx of Somalis at the time, um, and then as those phased out, the, the Polish come in and Bulgarians and, and Hungarians who were really good workers, so they had quite a lot of nationalities in, in the factory as well, obviously.

So far more than Yate and Sudbury in general. Yes, I can remember, um, I know it’s reopened again now, but obviously the, the, the Yate railway station was really a big, a big form of transport, and I can remember them, you know, actually all walking up the street to the factory, and obviously then on to Newman’s as well, but there was a massive, um, you know, transportation with the train, yeah.

[David Hardill]

Yeah, so, uh, you mentioned all the various nationalities, so when you, you mentioned about Somalis coming, when, what sort of period are we talking about?

[Keith Mainstone]

That was, I think that was quite early, I, I wasn’t there that long, it was probably within, sort of, ten years of me being there, and there was a big influx of Somalis then, and, um, they obviously wanted their rights, they had to have a, a prayer room, I think it was to pray to Mecca, I believe it was, I don’t know. We always used to joke we were probably over by B&Q, we thought, but I don’t know, and, um, obviously they had their, their wash basins or foot baths put in as well, they were quite demanding, um, so you had to accommodate for all this.

[David Hardill]

So, I was thinking with, with the, the, the Somali staff workforce, uh, so where, where were they working in the factory?

[Keith Mainstone]

Well, they were mainly in the paint shop, we had quite a large paint shop in, um, bitrous enamel shop, because obviously when I first started there the cooker production was, was really going, and, um, obviously it was a large paint shop for there, um, and they had like a, a degreasing plant, you know, where they had to obviously degrease all the components once they’d been made for, to get rid of all the oil and substances, so, um, they were mainly in the paint shop, in, in that, that sort of area, mainly, but, um, yeah, the cooker production was, was really big at the time, and I believe Jackson’s Cookers had a really good name, didn’t they? So, um, yeah, they were mainly paint shop, yeah.

[David Hardill]

And is there any reason for it being in a particular, or was it just, it was kind of, it sounds like it’s kind of been organised from, by someone else, or was it, was it just convenient?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I, I don’t quite know, they just seemed to, to stay together, and I suppose perhaps if they worked with their own nationalities they sort of got on with one another.

[David Hardill]

So, were they, uh, you mentioned about Polish, uh, sort of East European people, were they in a particular area of the factory, or did, did people work in?

[Keith Mainstone]

No, I think they were mainly, um, distributed over the factory, they were really quite compatible, they were really good workers, actually, and then we, of course, and in the press shop there was quite a few Jamaicans as well, so they really, it was quite a big culture, wasn’t it, when you look back at the nationalities, it really was. But, um, yeah, the press shop was another big one for, um, the Hungarians and the Poles, yeah, it was Polish, yeah.

[David Hardill]

And, uh, the people who were, uh, of British background, uh, were they mainly local, or did they come from villages, Bristol?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I think a lot were local, I, I can remember coaches coming in from, um, Wharton and Charlefield, they used to have coaches coming in, uh, but I think mainly it was, it was a lot of local people, you know, you, you know, when you get a talk in there they only lived at Framton or Covert Heath or Winterbourne, so I think it was quite, um, a good employment for the local residents, really, to be fair, but obviously Yate was a lot smaller than what it is now, but, um, yeah, there was quite a good employment from Yate as well, yeah.

[David Hardill]

What do you recall about the, uh, local trade unions?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yes, that, that was quite, um, quite a thing in the time because we had, um, quite a strong, um, shop steward as well in, in our maintenance department, and he was, um, you know, you had to have a green card at the time to work in the maintenance department, um, um, and that was, um, really quite straight, you know, without a green card you couldn’t have a contractor come on site, and, um, I wasn’t that strong a union person myself, but I can remember, uh, walking out several times for pay negotiations as well, but also, yeah, the union was, was quite strong in there, and the T&G, which was a red card, I believe, and that was very strong, they had some very strong, um, uh, shop stewards in there at the time.

So you made that a green card, is this, uh, the AEU? That’s right, yeah, that was more, more so the skills section, I believe, then the T&G transport in general, and, uh, but, yeah, there was a very strong, uh, shop stewards in there, and the union was very strong.

[David Hardill]

Did, uh, I mean, in terms of industrial action, things that you’ve mentioned there, um, was, was there some differences between the unions and what they were, you know, what you did, or what the outcome was?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, as I say, I can remember walking, you know, on picket duty, if you like, up the to stop any, well, we used to mainly stop, like, a lot of the staff going in, we used to sort of form a line, which was quite daunting for me, really, because I was only young, obviously, um, I didn’t really know too much about that at the time, but, obviously, as you work on, you get to know it, and, um, yeah, I can remember walking out several times, negotiations, um, and for different rights that people wanted, you know, yeah, so the union was quite strong in there, to be fair.

[David Hardill]

And, and was there a particular period where, where this was the case, uh, did it change over the years?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I think, um, I think, yeah, there was always going to be redundancies at some point, and I think people sort of mellowed a little bit, because as time went on, because they had a job, which was important, and I think, um, gradually, you know, um, I can remember our area official, Lou Gray, it was, actually, he was, he was very good, he used to come out and try and negotiate without us walking out, you know, and, obviously, there was pay deals, sort of, took place more so than walking out as it went on, you know.

And management, uh, how did, how did workers and management get on? …while you were there, did that change over the years?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I believe it was really good, yeah, we got to know the managers really well. I think Ken Foxall and Andy Bormain were two of the names that I sort of remember quite well.

And I think there was another guy, Batheway, I believe his name was, he was… Yeah, and generally the management was quite good. Yeah, so I think we had quite a good relationship with the management.

[David Hardill]

I mean, can you remember any sort of particular individuals or things who were sort of characters that stand out?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, there was always a couple. I mean, the guy that used to work on the maintenance, he was Polish actually. He was such a character.

I can’t remember his name now, but he was… He just generally looked after, I don’t know, the oil and stuff for the presses and made sure they were okay. And he was always singing and whistling, and he was brilliant.

At the moment I can’t remember his name, to be quite honest, but there was a lot of characters in there really, when you look back. I mean, on the maintenance we grew up as a family because we all done masses amount of years and we got on really well. Yeah, you look in different shops and you can picture people that were there and they were characters and you could always have a good laugh with them.

And generally it was a good environment to work in actually, to my experience, it really was. And how did men and women get on? Or did you come across many women?

Yes, there was a large intake of women, yes, there was. And I can remember going back to the pay, when we used to negotiate for pay rises, where there were… And I’ll always remember this, where there was a lot of women working there and obviously that could have been, if you like, a second income.

The votes where most men would not accept the pay award, with a large contingent of women they would because they had a second income coming in with their husbands. So really there was quite a little bit of controversy with that, with the women obviously voting as well, obviously, you know. I can remember that standing out quite well.

Yeah, that was quite tense sometimes, that was, yes.

[David Hardill]

What about the facilities and things like the canteen, amenities, what were they like? Or did you not have much to do?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I mean we used to actually walk out from the factory and I can remember using the canteen a lot and it was really good. Yeah, the canteen was smashing, we had to do it at a certain time because there were so many people there and we had to do our allocated sort of dinner slot, you know. And it was really good, yeah, the food was excellent.

Yeah, it’s nice.

[David Hardill]

One of the things you’re noted for is your links to the social life of the factory. Could you just maybe say a few things about maybe how you were involved at first and then how you got involved with the club?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I mean I think sort of quite a few of my mates was involved with the social club, so obviously as time went on I became sort of quite an active member of the social club. I was on the committee for probably 10 or 12 years and on the social aspect I used to, with my mates, I used to organise the live bands which we used to book up and then sell tickets. And it was quite lucky because my wife used to work at Tesco’s and they used to use the social club as their base for a social event and they used to sell 30 or 40 tickets at Tesco’s towards the dance and we had some really excellent good nights there, we really did.

So you mentioned about booking names, who was the person? We certainly had Billy J. Kramer there, we had Azz Cutler in the Wurzels, to name a few that people would recognise.

But yeah, it was a lot of very good groups. We had a local group called Footloose, that was Basil Taylor that lives in Frampton and Johnny Clark at Rainsworthy, they were two of the members. Obviously there was discos all the time as well.

But a lot of the groups, they were quite expensive, we had to sell tickets, we had to sell at least 150 tickets to pay for them. And they were good nights, they really were. How often are we talking about, maybe every Saturday or every once a month?

No, we used to have the live bands about every two months. Yes, we used to have the live bands every couple of months on a Saturday night. We had the bar till midnight, so that was always alright.

And they went down really well, they were well supported and it was just a nice family atmosphere, it was really, really good.

[David Hardill]

Was it very local people going? I mean, the people who commuted from far afield, did they go, or was it a sort of Yate, Sovereign contingent?

[Keith Mainstone]

Sorry, it was a lot of local people. One of my mates that worked in the motor shop, he lived at Patchway, and he was a member of Patchway Social Club, a chap by the name of Alan Chinnock. And he used to bring about 20 members from his social club to come to our social club.

So it was really good, and with Tesco supporting it as well, we used to sell the tickets quite easily, it was very good.

[David Hardill]

Can you remember what it was like in terms of entertainment before the club? Because I think Club 76, isn’t it? How the club kind of took it forward?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yes, I mean, I can remember the gala days, for instance, when we used to have the gala days at Jackson’s. But prior to the social club, I can remember going in there to play skittles and darts, but it sort of took off as we had the new club built by Hemmings, I think it was. And it took off really well then from Nature Years.

And of course, as it went on, we introduced the bingo. So I called for the bingo for 20 odd years. That was once a month on a Saturday, and we used to get 80 to 90 people there.

So that was really good. Yeah.

[David Hardill]

Yeah, do you think there’s any link between… I mean, did people who weren’t or didn’t have any connection to Jackson’s, Creed, did they come along for anything?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I think a lot of people used to… because it’s a lot of local people, they could walk into the social club and have a drink, where later years, once they travelled, you couldn’t have a drink with transport, with driving. But yeah, a lot of local people used to support the social club, they really did.

Yeah, so that was really good going back to then. And it’s a nice building, you know, it’s really nice. Yeah, they had darts, I mean, they had darts teams there, they had skittle teams there.

And then other teams used to hire it as well. So it’s certainly well used at one point, it was, yes.

[David Hardill]

You said there at one point, I mean, it sounds like there’s a sort of golden era.

[Keith Mainstone]

Yes, I think there was.

[David Hardill]

When Billy J. Kramer and various acts were there. So how did that change over the years?

So, you know, late 90s, 21st century?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I think as we moved on, you could see it wasn’t being used quite as much because people, you know, obviously drove to work more so in that era. And then obviously, they just basically finished work rather than going in the social club, obviously, they had to drive home. So they just jumped in their cars and drove home, really.

And, yeah, the bingo kept going for quite a while afterwards, you know. There was also table tennis in there as well, table tennis team. That was quite good.

We used to play other factories in the groups. I think it was TI then and we used to go around playing other groups in the TI investment chain.

[David Hardill]

I mean, the other thing that obviously stands out as change over the years is there’s obviously fewer people working in the factory. I mean, did that, was that a factor?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yes, I think it was. I mean, like, I think we discussed before. I mean, I think you said there was possibly 2000 people there at one time.

So I can remember the three shift system. There were certainly 500 that I can remember. Yeah, and I think that it gradually, numbers sort of just drifted a little bit.

Yeah, things did sort of go downhill a bit because obviously the main core of people was gone and a lot of them just, as I say, done their job and went home then, really. But the social club survived, you know, for many years. Until August, this August 2024.

[David Hardill]

Yeah, that’s right. Did you go to any of the, I mean, there were various events, weren’t there, that were associated? I think you mentioned a few.

Did you go to many of the kind of factory events, various galas, carnivals?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, I can remember being on the social club committee when it was to pantomime down the Hippodrome. I used to go on as one of the monitors and the factory paid for the coaches and the tickets for children’s employees, their children, to go down to the pantomime in the Hippodrome. That was quite something.

The kids loved that. So that was quite a nice thing to do. I mean, the factory paid for all that, I believe, coaches and tickets.

And also we used to have Christmas parties. It’s one of the venues in Bristol. That was also paid for by the company at the Christmas party.

The gala days, as we mentioned, they were excellent. You know, we had Trapno’s donkeys come out from West End, the donkey derby. That was brilliant.

I can remember seeing the police motorbike display team. They were superb. And generally there was lots of stalls and cricket competition going on.

And one of the highlights for me on the gala days, they used to have a tug-of-war competition. Inter-department tug-of-war. Myself, I wasn’t that strong, so I was the cheerleader for the maintenance.

I always remember that. And that was really good. And it was put to outside teams as well.

So there was a team from Whitwar that used to come down and win it quite regularly. And I believe there was a crate of beer as the prize. So it was quite, in them days, I think tug-of-war was quite an event for social gatherings, wasn’t it?

For fairs and that. I think tug-of-war was very popular.

[David Hardill]

So obviously these events, fates, galas, they didn’t go on forever.

[Keith Mainstone]

So it gradually phased out a little bit, really. But we were lucky enough to get the social club up and running because Ken Poxall was a very active member of the social club and he’d done all what he could. And it was good to have him at the time because at least we had many happy years out there.

And a lot of it was thanks to Ken Poxall, actually. Yeah, it was.

[David Hardill]

So it wasn’t the case of, well, as long as you can pay for all these things, we’re happy for you to do your social event. So it was a case of the management saying, well, there are these potential restrictions.

[Keith Mainstone]

Yeah, we were quite lucky because in the early days, the company used to pay for the energy bills and the water bills. So it wasn’t self-financing. We were very lucky that the company paid for that.

Obviously, the social club paid for the bar staff and for the cleaning. Then I think possibly what maybe started the downturn of the social club, I know it had to be self-financing. So therefore, obviously, with the cost of energy and so on, that was quite a big thing.

So I think that was part why it started to run downhill gradually. And unfortunately, now it is closed, isn’t it?

[David Hardill]

I suppose having to self-finance something, I suppose it’s more work for people who are effectively doing it as volunteers, aren’t they? Yes, that’s right. Yes, that’s exactly right.

That’s sort of final questions. I mean, how do you think Parnell’s, Jackson’s, Creder were viewed locally and how that changed over the years?

[Keith Mainstone]

Yes, I think generally they had a good name, I believe. Obviously, the staff shop opened up in the later years, which I think has been very well used. I certainly used it a few times anyway.

And yes, when you look back, it’s quite a number of companies that invested in it. And I believe the final one is Beko, isn’t it? Beko, yes.

So yes, it certainly changed over the years. I think a lot of companies thought that there was a good investment. I was quite alarmed how many companies took it over from when I started at Parnell’s.

Yes, it certainly has changed now.

[David Hardill]

It certainly has, hasn’t it? Well, lovely. Thank you ever so much, Keith.

There’s a lot of good information there that I’m sure we’ll be able to use for future displays and this one as well.

[Keith Mainstone]

Yes, well, I say I was only happy to come in. I mean, I had 40 good years there and I was very lucky to work with a good maintenance team. And yes, I would only praise it up.

I was very lucky to work there. And I think in that era, it was a nice era to work at. Very happy times.

Great. Thank you. Thank you very much.